Wow. Playing pinball is how you met?!

Playing pinball! Because the guy that Dana was dating had lived with Greg, my husband, so they were just in the same friend group. And then I joined the pinball team … I remember [looking at a pinball machine the same way we all look at a pinball machine] and [Colin] came up and said, well, “Do you wanna know what you're doing?” And I was like, “I didn't know there was anything for me to do.” And he said, “There's a couple goals you're trying to accomplish. There are things that lead to other things.” And it was really the first thing that I found that I could be competitive against myself. And something I just know is that I need some sort of competitive outlet.

He schooled you, a little bit?

I was like oh my God, I could do that.

But that's the other thing. You can put up to four people on a pinball machine, so that's how there are leagues and such. 

And between rounds there's drinking. (Cheers!)

We are in Chicago, you need indoor activities. 

Where did you move to Chicago from? Where are you from originally? 

I moved to Chicago from the metro Detroit area. So I grew up in Sterling Heights and I went to Michigan State University and that is something that I kind of enjoy talking about too, and reflecting on. I really started photographing people and understanding that that was how I felt best moving through the world when I was like 15, 16 years old. 

And did you study photography in college? 

I did, but it took me a while to get there because I ended up going to a residential college within Michigan State. They had only been around for a year and I was introduced to them on a college night after my mom and I had gone around the country going to art schools that I had gotten into, but just didn't feel right at ... We went to Rhode Island; we went to Chicago; we went out to Santa Barbara. I thought that that's what I wanted, and then I got there and I was like, well, all of these people are doing the same thing I'm doing! Or they were artists and I can't draw from Adam, so that made me panic in a way …

Anyway, so I was kind of out of place where, you know, I was feeling disenchanted. I got into these places, I felt that's what I had to do, but I'm not feeling excited about any of them. And it was my dad, my dad was a Michigan State basketball player, he said, “Just humor me. Just go to the Michigan State Booth.”

And I went up to the Michigan State booth and there was a woman there named Kate McGormley and she said, “What do you like to do?” And I said, “I like writing and I like taking photos of people.” And her eyes got all big, and she said, “My God! We just started this college…” And she started kind of rambling the way that I ramble, and I just felt this excitement kind of coming off of her. And I was so excited that it was new and they didn't know what they were yet. And that was the best part of it.

I'm actually going and speaking at the college at the end of the month, so I've been reflecting on this a lot. But yeah, that was how I ended up there. 

That's great. So tell me a little bit about you as a photographer these days, like, what are you shooting? What are you like to shoot? How's business, you know, get as broad or specific as you like? 

My elevator pitch is that I usually get brought in when you have a lot of people that are uncomfortable in front of the camera. So the way that I've figured out and enjoy doing that is to be hired by a brand to set up a photo booth at conventions. That is honestly at this point 80% of my business. So split among three retainer clients for the most part… and then, I'll take a tangent, because I've made it to the point in my career which feels really amazing where I have a little bit of choice over what I shoot… And I can try to dictate toward building a portfolio again of what I want to do more of. And that feels really good and that's the first time I've ever been here.

Two weeks ago, I got a call from a friend that [asked if I was] available next week for a photo booth. There was this woman that had dropped out the week before and she had screwed them over with a contract. She had tried to do “Ai photo experiences” that were each going take forty minutes and the week before the event she told them, “Oh, by the way, I'm going to need everybody that does this to sign photo releases.” And they were like, absolutely not.

Was this photographer that was making everyone sign releases using AI? Was she trying to use peoples’ likeness to train Ai models?! 

I think so, because I don't know why else you would need releases.  

It sounds sketchy. On the topic, though I'm curious, general thoughts. Ai. Are you freaked out? Excited?

It depends on the minute, it depends on the day, depends on the topic, really, because it's (and I do not say this word lightly) raping artists. It is taking people's work that does not fucking belong to them, and it is using it to train itself. As a general concept, I fucking hate it. Have we never read a book? Have we never watched a movie? This will go bad. So that is where my head is at with it in general. I will say, though, as somebody who has used Photoshop for twenty years, the fact that I can now just be like, beep, beep beep, expand, delete — that is what I wanted it to do since I got it. So there are elements of it that I think are sophisticated and impressive and useful, but the way that they are stealing from artists is upsetting to me. 

Not to turn this on me, but part of the reason I started this Keep it 100 project was sort of to be anti-Ai. You were the first repeat customer! So tell me a little bit about why you like it. 

Oh my God, I'm so I will talk about this all day. 

I want to hear from your perspective, though.

I think that Clayton, pound for pound, is the coolest photographer in Chicago right now (Editor blushes). I used to work with Lenny Gilmore, who's light taught me a lot, and I think that your craft in terms of light is exceptional, and then your creativity in the way that people look and seem to feel in your photos. You don't get those things together very often. I pride myself on making people comfortable in a scene, but I'll be the first to tell you that sometimes I fuck up my lighting.

I'll photograph three-hundred people in a day and so this subject comes up a lot. Your headshot should look like you. And as an artist, I should have one headshot that looks like the headshots I take. But something that represents me as an artist, I want that to look cool and weird and lit to the high heavens. And that is something that I don't want to do for myself. I want somebody that I really respect and admire to do for me. 

You've been kind.